The following is a transcript of the above podcast:
Randol White:
The first hydrogen fuel cell electric buses to serve public transit customers along the Peninsula are now in service, with many more on the way in the weeks, months, and years to come.
The San Mateo County Transit District, or SamTrans, recently placed an order for 108 additional hydrogen buses, marking the largest order of its kind in North America to date.
The move toward hydrogen at SamTrans symbolizes a major shift in the public transportation industry. But why hydrogen? What makes it such an attractive carbon-free choice for transit? Where does hydrogen fuel even come from? And is it truly green?
I'm Randol White, Public Information Officer at SamTrans, Caltrain, and the San Mateo County Transportation Authority. Joining me to help answer some of these questions are two experts on the topic.
David Harbour is the Director of Maintenance at SamTrans and plays a major role in adopting the district's new hydrogen fleet. I work with David, so I'm going to take the liberty of calling him Dave today. Hey, thanks for making time to discuss this significant milestone.
David Harbour:
Yeah, no problem, Randol.
Randol White:
And Dr. Lewis Fulton is the Director of the Energy Futures Program at the UC Davis Institute of Transportation Studies. He also chairs the transportation working group of the California Hydrogen Hub, known as ARCHES. Dr. Fulton, we really appreciate having you here to share your expertise regarding the future of hydrogen in California.
Dr. Lewis Fulton:
Thank you, Randol. Nice to be here. Yeah, I'm Lew, and I'm looking forward to the discussion.
Randol White:
All right, so let's start with—well, I really want to get down to the absolute basics. I should mention that in the industry, these buses are referred to as FCEBs, which is short for fuel cell electric bus. But for our purposes today, I'll just call them hydrogen buses.
That said, you might hear the terms FCEB, hydrogen fuel cell, or just fuel cell in this conversation, so I wanted to clarify that upfront. Now, Dave, on that topic, can you help us understand how a hydrogen bus works?
David Harbour:
Sure, sure. And thanks for clarifying the term FCEB because I'll probably use it—it’s just part of my vocabulary at this point.
Hydrogen buses, or FCEBs, use gaseous hydrogen as fuel. The fuel cell converts the hydrogen into electricity, which then charges batteries that power an electric motor. So, in a way, it's a hybrid system.
Randol White:
And is there a reason why SamTrans chose hydrogen over other zero-emission technologies like battery-electric? I know there are battery-electric buses in the fleet, but this was a big order.
David Harbour:
Yes. This order of 108 buses is a major commitment. We do currently have 10 battery-electric buses.
When SamTrans initially started with battery-electric buses, we learned a few things. One of the biggest factors in choosing hydrogen is range. Hydrogen fuel cell buses are expected to achieve nearly the same range as diesel buses—about 300 miles per day—while battery-electric buses max out around 200 miles per full charge.
From an operational standpoint, that difference is significant. There’s also a cost difference, particularly in infrastructure. The per-bus cost is relatively close between hydrogen and battery-electric, with hydrogen being slightly more expensive. But when it comes to fueling infrastructure, hydrogen has some advantages.
Randol White:
You mean the per-bus cost?
David Harbour:
Yeah, the cost of each bus is similar, with hydrogen buses being slightly more expensive. However, infrastructure is a bigger factor.
Hydrogen fueling is more comparable to our current diesel fueling system. Filling a hydrogen bus takes about 12 to 15 minutes, whereas a battery-electric bus at zero charge takes around four hours to fully recharge.
Randol White:
SamTrans covers a large service area—from San Francisco down to Palo Alto and all of San Mateo County, which includes some significant hills. I imagine all of that played a role in this decision.
David Harbour:
It did. However, the propulsion systems—the motors that actually move the bus—are similar between FCEBs and battery-electric buses. The key difference is battery capacity. A battery-electric bus simply can't carry enough batteries to meet our range needs for a full day's service.
A hydrogen bus, on the other hand, carries the hydrogen it needs to convert into electricity throughout the day, achieving a range comparable to diesel.
Randol White:
Lew, let’s turn to your area of expertise. California has set ambitious climate goals, including achieving carbon neutrality within the next 20 years. Is hydrogen a reliable tool to help meet those targets?
Dr. Lewis Fulton:
Absolutely. Reliability is crucial—both for the vehicles themselves and the fuel supply. Cost is another major factor.
Dave described the trade-offs well. Battery-electric vehicles are reliable and can tap into the electrical grid easily, but they take a long time to recharge and have a more limited range. Hydrogen, on the other hand, offers quick refueling and longer range. That’s why many transit agencies and trucking fleets are considering a mix of both technologies.
Battery-electric buses have been in use longer, but fuel cell buses have also been operating in California since the late 2010s. AC Transit was one of the first agencies to deploy them. Overall, agencies have had good experiences with hydrogen bus reliability, and the technology continues to improve each year.
Randol White:
Well then, finally, Dave—these hydrogen buses in the SamTrans fleet, they're clearly marked, so when someone boards one, they'll be able to tell they’re on a hydrogen bus?
David Harbour:
They will. They look a lot like one of our New Flyer battery-electric buses, since these are also made by New Flyer. But we added some unique graphics—there are bubbles on the back and some on the upper cap, and it says "Hydrogen" up there as well.
Overall, it has the standard SamTrans design, but with these extra identifiers. It'll ride and sound very similar to a battery-electric bus—or rather, it won’t sound like much at all since it’s very quiet. So keep an eye out for the hydrogen markings.
Randol White:
All right, Dave Harbour, Director of Maintenance at SamTrans, looking forward to following along as the district grows its fleet of hydrogen buses. Thanks again for your time today.
David Harbour:
Thank you.
Randol White:
And Dr. Lew Fulton, Director of the Energy Futures Program at the UC Davis Institute of Transportation Studies, thank you as well for making time to discuss this really significant shift toward hydrogen as a green fuel source for public transit.
Dr. Lewis Fulton:
My pleasure. Thank you.
Randol White:
Again, I'm Randol White. Find more information at SamTrans.com/blog, and thanks for listening.